I passed the final, how can I not pass the course?
A student raises the question to you: If your final examination is 1) comprehensive, 2) reliable, and 3 valid, why do I need to participate in the discussions or group work?
It is important to participate in discussions as it gives you a lot of different points of view. I would never want to just know 1 side of the picture.
Also, sometimes you think you understood and by hearing what others say, it will either confirm this or set you on the right track.
Jim: Excellent question. And I am not sure that I can answer this correctly without knowing the Learning Objectives of the course. I will assume that none of the objectives relate to group dynamics, and that the duration of the course allows for the project to be completed on an individual basis instead of as a group.
With those assumptions,I do not think I would be in a position to justify participation in the discussion forum. The parallel is receiving points for class participation. Students can choose not to participate, and therefore choose to forfeit those points. The same applies to an online environment. If points are awarded for participation in Discussion forums, they can choose not to participate. On the other hand, if points are not awarded, the likelihood of participation would even be less.
All things being equal, students can pass the course with a decent grade in both settings.
In short, the student has a very strong argument.
Satrohan
Jim:
Students have asked this question of me as well.
I explain that each component of an online class is important and have found the discussion area to be a valuable tool in which various subject matters can be discussed amongst the entire class.
I personally believe that online classes should include weekly discussion questions, weekly quizzes and/or assignments, as well as a mid term project and a final exam. I believe that having several components in a course adds to the overall value perceived by an online student.
Kim
I agree that discussions are important and should be used every week. It is really where we can get our online students to engage in the class. Thanks for your comments Kim.
I agree that the student has a very strong argument. I understand what others are saying about the importance of discussion to learning. However, if our evaluation tools are effective, doesn't that mean that the student who passes the class doesn't need discussions to get what he or she needs? In addition, if the discussion is so important to learning, shouldn't those discussions be weighted more heavily towards the final grade?
This is no different than the residential students that get A grades in the midterm and final but never attend any other class sessions. While this doesn't happen very frequently, it certainly suggests that the student has the knowledge if they are able to pass the exams. Isn't that the purpose of assessments? To determine if a student has the knowledge of the subject?
Great thought provoking comments Rebecca.
I simply explain to all students, it is imparative they participate in all faucets of the class to get the full learning experience. They can fail the class by lack of participation, which is a large percentage of the overall grade.
Passing a paper and pencil test does prove something: You are able to answer questions at a satisfactory level. Fine. Now, how good are you at communicating your thoughts? ... analyzing the thoughts of others? ... working with others? Discussions and group work have value too in developing a well-rounded, social-skilled, competent, intelligent person. That is why all students need to work on them.
Tests show that students understand the theories or practices of what they are learning. Being able to participate and share those thoughts in community with one another shows they know how to apply what they’ve learned. Once on the job they will need those skills of working together and communicating with others as much as the knowledge of the subject.
Having students be able to articulate what they have learned is very important, as you have stated. Online group discussions allow students to share what they have learned with their peers as well as continually practice their writing skills, which is also critical. Thanks for your response Janice!
I agree with some of the other responses that say that different points of view can be very helpful in understanding the course material more fully. Having a firm grasp on the information presented, and not just being able to take a test and do well on it, means that you are more fully engaged and have reached a greater level of comprehension. Discussion forums in asynchronous format can be very helpful in allowing students to counter each other's opinions and value each other's viewpoints.
Certainly some subjects are more conducive to varying points of view, but it is a great way to engage the learner.
My school is a vocational training institute and we have a component of the final grade, which is called Effort and Attitude. In this section, we evaluate the students' participation, professionalism, initiative, and several other work ethic qualities. Students are informed that this is 20% of their grade. We plan to put the discussion forum participation grade into this category. I personally feel that these critical thinking skills are actually as important as the actual factual information that students are tested on with the exams and quizzes. They indicate the ability to apply the factual information to the real-life situations they will encounter in the work place.
You are right Susan, discussion forums can be one way to evaluate a students critical thinking skill. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the subject with the group.
A discussion board show the student understands how to communicate at a college level and can not only solve problems but troubleshoot future problems by raising critical questions to their peers. Its a different and equally important quality that can not be judged on the merits of a final alone.
The classes that I teach include points for each discussion question so the student will lose a great deal of points if they fail to participate.
especially in the medical field , it's all about competency and knowledge. I had students that passed the finals but failed the practicals or competency and that will be considered a failure. And especially in this field , it's all about application.
Once again it all depends on the course priority and objectives.
Good answer. The competency, knowledge and application all end up determining the quality of the service provided by the graduate. These are tough to determine from a single test on any one day. The course objectives and assessment activities (formative and summative) must provide a broader perspective of the mastery of the competencies than can usually be provided on a single test.
