Online students
I think that often students that take classes online think that they will be easier. As an online doctoral student let me say that is not the case. Taking online courses makes you more responsible for your learning.
Janis
Janis,
Very well put. I have noticed this with my online programs. I easily lose 10% or so of my online students in the first 1-2 semesters when they realize the online program has as much rigor as the on-campus programs...and because the learning is online and students have to take that responsibility for their learning. I wouldn't want it any other way. Learning should be learning regardless of the delivery format.
Herbert Brown III
I agree. I am wrapping up a degree online and have had to be more disciplined than I ever was at a brick and mortar school.
It will be interesting to see how our students do considering we are a trade school.
Agreed. It comes down to the difference between learner-centered education as opposed to instructor-directed education. I think that this will continue to be challenging until the next generation of learners begin from early education (K-5) and then beyond so that the learners will be more adapted to the methods of learner-centered ed.
Paul,
Do you track your students after graduation and follow up on the success of your instruction? I am a firm believer that we should be doing some follow up with our graduates to ensure they are being successful and validate our efforts and curriculum.
Herbert Brown III
Richard,
Good point on the learner-centered instruction. We are also seeing this shift in much of the common core movement in our K-12 education systems. The fact that online options are now available for K-12 students will also help to strengthen this shift.
Herbert Brown III
We are a proprietary ed school so we don't have a choice in keeping up with them after graduation.
Paul
Paul,
Can you be specific about your statement here. I am unsure why a proprietary ed school would or would not have to keep up with them after graduation.
Herbert Brown III
One of our benchmarks is placement. If we fall below a certain percentage we can be penalized by the DOE same for retention. Have you ever worked at a school that has been on "Show Cause" it sucks trust me.
Paul
Paul,
No, thank goodness I have not been. I think I would chance jobs. There are a lot of assumptions with that model and a lot of issues like the economic condition of the area and the country that you have no control over. I have also had students that will not relocate for a job and insist on staying in an area where there will not be a job....I would not want to be penalized for that. There are hundreds of job openings in my area, but students have to be willing to relocate from our current location to get those jobs.
Herbert Brown III
Janis,
I could not disagree with you more, but don't take the following personal. I have 7 college degrees at the B.S. level or higher, and I have never taken an online class as a student. However, I have been teaching online for the past 4 years for 8 different for profit online universities, and I have found standards to be nonexistent, cheating to be everywhere, and each to be a joke compared to the brick and mortar schools I attended. I am currently writing a book about my experiences online titled "The Decline of The American Educational System and The Part I Played; How Online Education Ruined America". Everyone is not college material, but online schools find a way to get everyone a degree by continously keep lowering the standards until everyone can meet them and get a degree. Most consider an online PHD to be equivalent to a B.S. at a ground school. You get unlimited quiz and test attempts online, no late work policy, and canned courses the content of which never changes that have the solutions for sale online. That is just a start. I can hardly wait for the Gainful Employment act to pass. Therefore, students definitely take online courses because they are easier. No brick and mortar campus in the US will give you unlimited test attempts. This is just a start. Watch for my book to come out. It will definitely be a best seller.
Sincerely,
Vince
Hi Vince,
I am speaking as an online student. I have to agree that the standards for some online and ground schools leave a lot to desire. However earning a doctorate online has been grueling for me. I have worked my tail off.
Your book sounds interesting I look forward to reading it.
Janis
Vince,
Thanks for sharing your experiences Vince. I would like to suggest that I have also seen online done well. Clearly there are programs that exist this might be considered diploma mills and we need to address that in education! However, there are good programs and even those brick and mortar schools have online program. I work for one of those brick and mortar skills and we have complete freedom in how we teach our online classes. I would say some programs are doing it well and others are not doing it was well as it should be. We also are being told we have to have NUMBERS in our programs. The more we focus on NUMBERS only, the more you will see people cut corners and do anything to keep students enrolled in programs. It is a viscous cycle. But we all need to keep in mind that it is NOT the delivery that is the program, it is the way that institutions have decided to implement this delivery method.
Herbert Brown III
Janis,
Good point. There are good online programs and poor ones as well as good traditional programs and poor ones. We need to be careful demonizing any delivery mechanism and focus on how to do it right and encourage the "right ways"
Herbert Brown III
Janis: You are more than correct in your assessment of online education. Ever since the turn of this new century, technology and virtual education has become more advanced. In fact, accreditation bodies have recognized the need more than ever. With this acknowledgement, they have assisted in making sure that the quality of the programs are just as strict, if not more than traditional programs. Sure; some schools and programs may be more demanding than others, but a quality program will challenge the student to manage all things applicable to their personal educational learning experience. The work is typically more accelerated and often requires more critical thinking as well as amount of work—all of this generally accomplished in less time. The instructor is more of a facilitator, which requires the student to take more responsibility for learning the content presented in the overall class material. This type of learning definitely forces the student to become a better thinker, which ultimately leads to more knowledge.
I always tell my students: "If you are taking this course, you are already a self-starter! The best way to succeed in my class is to keep up and stay in touch (with me), and you will do well!" When the course is only 5 weeks long, it is so easy to get behind. It's difficult to catch up, but not impossible.
Thanks,
Kelly Schwartz
My experience with online course was that I had to study even harder. The only reason I took online courses was because of my work schedule.
Yvette,
I personally believe that since the focus of the learning is more student-oriented, that students feel much more of the burden to learn. That is not to say that we shouldn't do that in on-campus courses either. I believe instructors should be facilitators guiding the students in their learning process.
Herbert Brown III
I agree with you Janis. I thought the same thing when I began my master's program and I realized that it takes great discipline. The work was also more intense and at a faster pace than your traditional 'brick and mortar' school. However, I am now working in my doctorate as well and I love the convenience but sometimes that one-on-one attention would be advantageous to the process.
Aretha,
That is why I try to personally connect with my students during the semester and get them to connect with one another in a personal way. It provides that social interaction most people crave in learning.
Herbert Brown III
