Hi Joyce: Good way of expressing it. Teachers often have unrealistic expectations too. I think some may assume because a student has completed a certain class or collection of classes, they're fully prepared to jump in feet first. Often, that's not the case. Pretesting can help a teacher dcide where the weaker areas are and where the emphasis should be for a particular cohort, Also, I don't think pretesting is needed all the time and for every class. It's a tool, and we use our tools only for the "projects" they're needed for. Regards, Barry