Dave,
The original question on this forum is specific to the TWC annual report. "Placed" refers to the school providing the job lead or other direct connection that results in the graduate getting a job in their field of study. "Not Placed" is where the graduate obtains employment (also in the field) but through their own sources. In other words, without the assistance of the school. This must be documented on the completer follow up form (PS-072A).
JP Mehlmann
Our school used in - school meetings with graduates to secure employment information. We also utilize a wages-earned request form that can be used to locate information on students. We also have skip trace services we use to locate lost students so we can at least attempt to obtain employment information. The best way to ensure that students will gladly give employment information is to make the entire school experience a good one where student's welfare is top priority and concerns of students heard. The entire placement experience should be done with much care and celebration, which will also make it easy to get student information about employment.
In many cases we contact the employer to determine how the employer found the student. If the employer found the student through their own advertisement then we know the student is employed verses placed. We also keep a tracking sheet of which students are sent on interviews and follow up with the employer to determine if they were hired or not. 90% of the time employers are the main resource for determining the student status.
Arturo,
Employers are a solid source of placement data for graduates. This question is tied into the annual Outcomes Report required by the TWC CSC. Specifically, for each graduate, you must have a completed form PS-072A. The form can be completed by the graduate (where if "placed" the graduate checks the boxes that correspond to the school's efforts to help them find that job). In any event, your annual report must be backed and correspond to, completed PS-072A forms for each graduate.
JP Mehlmann
We provide comprehensive training to our career services personnell regarding the statistical processes, measurement thresholds, and vernacular of the Enrollment and Outcomes Report.
This same training is given to various key personnell throughout the organization who are then required to go through and perform a secondary verification of the employment data originally compiled by the career services department. The career services director and campus director are then made aware of any discrepancies and meet to audit the graduate's file.
Working with students who do not wish to disclose employment status is, in my opinion, the more difficult task. I believe the first line of defense is trying to reason with them via phone/email. If that is unsuccessful,a variety of methods can be used to attempt to find out where the student is currently at (e.g. other graduates of the same cohort, externhsip location, social media, etc.). If any information is gathered, you can request employment verification from the employer. They will not release salary data, but atleast you have a place to start.
Brad,
You bring up some excellent points. Oftentimes, a multi-pronged, problem-solving approach is needed and will bring in information on some graduates. I believe another key is for Career Services staff to develop good rapport with students from the beginning of classes to lessen the avoidance from them once they graduate.
JP Mehlmann
We have a dedicated department that works with the employers and the students. The department will do follow up through various communication methods and file the proper documentation as needed.In some cases the information just can not be attained
david,
If you are the person who signs and submits the report, be sure to understand it thoroughly. You must have a completer form for each graduate. The report must correspond exactly to these individual graduate completer forms; i.e., the graduate is considered "placed" if a box is checked that the school directly helped them get the job.
JP Mehlmann
Our current process is the assist the graduate is attaining employments prior to graduation for the program. This enables us to attain the required documentation and/or information from the student fairly quickly. If the student is unsure if the current employment opportunity fall outside of the scope of specific training we has a series of questions to gain a clear understanding of the students daily task. This will allow us to determine if the current employments falls within the specific classified area.
If the student is reluctant to share the information we simply let the student know that this is a state requirement to gather this information.
Our current process is the assist the graduate is attaining employments prior to graduation for the program. This enables us to attain the required documentation and/or information from the student fairly quickly. If the student is unsure if the current employment opportunity fall outside of the scope of specific training we has a series of questions to gain a clear understanding of the students daily task. This will allow us to determine if the current employments falls within the specific classified area.
If the student is reluctant to share the information we simply let the student know that this is a state requirement to gather this information.
We encourage students to reveal their employment status but we do not force them. We also have a Student Services Coordinator and an Education Consultant who both help in finding our student gainful employment either during or after school.
Johnny,
Thank you for your post. One of the keys to obtaining employment information is having good rapport with the student throughout their training. Good communication throughout will help in communication after the student graduates.
JP Mehlmann
We would need to make sure that we have a full understanding of what it is to be Employed, Placed, and Not Placed. Maybe convey this information to the student during orientation, as well as, the purpose of reporting their employment status and its importance. This would be a great start to building a good rapport with them.
If the student is not being cooperative with reporting their information, we would simply tell them that this is a state requirement.
Eddie,
Absolutely - building rapport with the student early on, and throughout their training is key to obtaining placement/employment information later. Uncooperative students often have one or more reasons for their lack of cooperation. A common misperception by graduates is that they do not want the school to "take credit" for their employment success (especially if they feel they obtained a job on their own). It may help to communicate to students that, in addition to the state requirement for data, the state reports we complete differentiate how the student obtained employment: i.e. on their own or with help from the school so we will report it accurately. Another way to encourage communication is to tell them our concern is that they are employed, not who got them the job.
JP Mehlmann
If a student has gained employment in their field of study, they would fall into the "employed" category. If the school assisted with job placement resources, such as job leads, job fairs, etc., then the status category would be "placed". If the school did not provide employment assistance, then the status category would be "not placed".
We work with students beginning at orientation to build relationships that ensure student compliance upon successful completion and job search. We also have students complete a release of employment and wage verification that we are able to send to employer partners, to try to gather required placement data on graduates.
Hosting in-house job fairs and employer presentations are a great way to generate relationship building, not only with students, but employers as well.
Katherine,
Excellent answer. I agree that relationship-building is the key to graduate cooperation and also to employment/ placement success.
JP Mehlmann
Just for clarification purposes, does TWC/CSC require student’s signature on TWC form PS-072 if staff member obtained placement info via telephone conference or transferred data from student record?
Michael,
Thanks - you ask a good question. TWC CSC does not require a signature if the school obtained placement info from telephone or other records. In fact, I have seen some schools have the student sign the form at an exit interview prior to the student obtaining employment. This is not acceptable. If you look at the PS-072A form, the student signature line is included and part of the data lines for employment info. In other words, the student/graduate should only sign it when they are reporting their employment info. In addition, the Annual Reporting to CSC must match the cohort set of PS-072A forms for all the students during the reporting period. This set of data forms should include a mix of student reported (signed) forms as well as forms completed by the school. i.e you must have a form for every graduate (suggest you review the reporting requirements at the beginning of the reporting year so you can start your data set accurately and in line with the reporting requirements.
Thank you,
JP Mehlmann
Does (NP) Not Placed counted for or against the school? It is still a placement, correct?
Michael,
Yes it is still counts for the school when a grad gets a job under the NP category (meaning they claim to have obtained the job on their own, without direct help from the school). For the annual report, this would be reflected in the schools "Employment Rate" which includes all NP and P employed graduates. The Employment Rate is the better indicator of the success of the program. Unfortunately, this methodology assumes that a placement is only when the school directly helps the grad get a job (like providing the job lead).
Thanks,
JP Mehlmann
