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								<h1>Robert Magee</h1></div>
	
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				<a href='/pg/profile/bobmagee'>Robert Magee</a> 
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			Discussion Comment <div class='river-title'><a href='/topic/comment/7842/112753/208260' style=''>Admissions/clarifying student expectations as a problem in developing student success systems</a></div>
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	<div class="river_content_display">How do we deal with the very real fact that Admissions Representatives in schools are pressured to make their numbers at all costs...and will thus tell a student anything it's thought they want to hear; regarding if it impacts an accurate understanding by the new student of the realities they will face.

The bottom line is all too often...just that. If a Rep is told to make numbers they won't tell a student something that might get in the way of making a sale...ethical or not.</div>					<!-- </p> -->
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				<a href='/pg/profile/bobmagee'>Robert Magee</a> 
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			Discussion Comment <div class='river-title'><a href='/topic/comment/7842/111871/193720' style=''>How do you feel those interested in creating a climate of student support deal with management that doesn't "get it"?</a></div>
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	<div class="river_content_display"><p>Agreed.

I think that schools need to be required by ACCSCT and ACICS to have student advisors as part of their accreditation standards. 

Unfortunately, all too many schools often can't see beyond the next start...and see numbers as their only way of measuring success, whther those numbers are enrollments or placements. The people that make up those numbers aren't in their 

Investment in the long-term seems like a foreign language to many companies within for-profit education.

Our company has lengthened program length to include "soft courses"...and increased various in-house standards, including increased attendance percentage as a condition of graduation; as&mldr; <span><a href='/topic/comment/7842/111871/193720' style='text-decoration:none;'>>>></a></span></p></div>					<!-- </p> -->
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				<a href='/pg/profile/bobmagee'>Robert Magee</a> 
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			Discussion Comment <div class='river-title'><a href='/topic/comment/7842/112574/204858' style=''>Perception of fairness as an essential...examples of intervention</a></div>
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	<div class="river_content_display"><p>I found at Computer Learning Center that whan a student believed the Student Advisor (myself) was willing to be fair...that it increased their willingness to come forth with problems...at a early enough time that they could be dealt with.

They saw that sometimes, a position was taken "on the side of a teacher". Other times it was "on the side of the student". But they always saw it was after a careful evaluation of the facts.

In one case, there had been an instructor who had particular issues with African-American males; and we saw a demonstrated tendency to grade these&mldr; <span><a href='/topic/comment/7842/112574/204858' style='text-decoration:none;'>>>></a></span></p></div>					<!-- </p> -->
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		<div class="river_item" data="2005-06-14">
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				<a href='/pg/profile/bobmagee'>Robert Magee</a> 
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			Discussion Comment <div class='river-title'><a href='/topic/comment/7842/112371/201244' style=''>Keeping perceptions of future success not as easy...but as possible</a></div>
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	<div class="river_content_display"><p>I've always pushed the idea in 22 years of work in post-secondary schools...that whether a student advisor, or a job placement officer that students must be taught they success is real...and possible; even probable; but NEVER as easy.

This is especially important because if if success is presented in this manner; the student knows the professional is merely mouthing words, and doesn't really feel the words s/he is saying. 

When a student doesn't feel you feel what you're saying...they feel that they have no realistic chance at success; and you actually INCREASE the chance of the student dropping. They asume&mldr; <span><a href='/topic/comment/7842/112371/201244' style='text-decoration:none;'>>>></a></span></p></div>					<!-- </p> -->
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			Discussion Comment <div class='river-title'><a href='/topic/comment/7842/111871/193716' style=''>How do you feel those interested in creating a climate of student support deal with management that doesn't "get it"?</a></div>
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	<div class="river_content_display"><p>How do those interested in creating a climate of student support deal with school management that doesn't "get it"?

All too often, management in schools (I've been in proprietary education since 1983) deal with the numbers for THIS class start...and not for the long-term.

All too often they don't see that good student service is the right thing...and the effective thing...but is also good business.

Specifically, how do we introduce these ideas into becoming a real part of a company's culture?

A case in point...when I worked at Computer Learning Center, we made a point of amking clera that Student&mldr; <span><a href='/topic/comment/7842/111871/193716' style='text-decoration:none;'>>>></a></span></p></div>					<!-- </p> -->
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								<h1>Robert Magee</h1></div>
	
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			<div class='row'><div class='col-lg-4'><div class='profile-section-content'><p class='profile_section_title'><i class='fa-regular fa-address-card'></i> About me</p><div class='profile_section_items'><p><!-- seo --><!-- seo --><!-- seo --><!-- seo --><!-- seo --><!-- seo --><!-- seo --><!-- seo --><!-- seo --><!-- seo --><!-- seo --><!-- seo --></p>
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			Discussion Comment <div class='river-title'><a href='/topic/comment/7842/112753/208260' style=''>Admissions/clarifying student expectations as a problem in developing student success systems</a></div>
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	<div class="river_content_display">How do we deal with the very real fact that Admissions Representatives in schools are pressured to make their numbers at all costs...and will thus tell a student anything it's thought they want to hear; regarding if it impacts an accurate understanding by the new student of the realities they will face.

The bottom line is all too often...just that. If a Rep is told to make numbers they won't tell a student something that might get in the way of making a sale...ethical or not.</div>					<!-- </p> -->
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				<a href='/pg/profile/bobmagee'>Robert Magee</a> 
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			Discussion Comment <div class='river-title'><a href='/topic/comment/7842/111871/193720' style=''>How do you feel those interested in creating a climate of student support deal with management that doesn't "get it"?</a></div>
			</div>
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	<div class="river_content_display"><p>Agreed.

I think that schools need to be required by ACCSCT and ACICS to have student advisors as part of their accreditation standards. 

Unfortunately, all too many schools often can't see beyond the next start...and see numbers as their only way of measuring success, whther those numbers are enrollments or placements. The people that make up those numbers aren't in their 

Investment in the long-term seems like a foreign language to many companies within for-profit education.

Our company has lengthened program length to include "soft courses"...and increased various in-house standards, including increased attendance percentage as a condition of graduation; as&mldr; <span><a href='/topic/comment/7842/111871/193720' style='text-decoration:none;'>>>></a></span></p></div>					<!-- </p> -->
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				<a href='/pg/profile/bobmagee'>Robert Magee</a> 
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			Discussion Comment <div class='river-title'><a href='/topic/comment/7842/112574/204858' style=''>Perception of fairness as an essential...examples of intervention</a></div>
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	<div class="river_content_display"><p>I found at Computer Learning Center that whan a student believed the Student Advisor (myself) was willing to be fair...that it increased their willingness to come forth with problems...at a early enough time that they could be dealt with.

They saw that sometimes, a position was taken "on the side of a teacher". Other times it was "on the side of the student". But they always saw it was after a careful evaluation of the facts.

In one case, there had been an instructor who had particular issues with African-American males; and we saw a demonstrated tendency to grade these&mldr; <span><a href='/topic/comment/7842/112574/204858' style='text-decoration:none;'>>>></a></span></p></div>					<!-- </p> -->
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				<a href='/pg/profile/bobmagee'>Robert Magee</a> 
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			Discussion Comment <div class='river-title'><a href='/topic/comment/7842/112371/201244' style=''>Keeping perceptions of future success not as easy...but as possible</a></div>
			</div>
		</div>
	<div class="river_content_display"><p>I've always pushed the idea in 22 years of work in post-secondary schools...that whether a student advisor, or a job placement officer that students must be taught they success is real...and possible; even probable; but NEVER as easy.

This is especially important because if if success is presented in this manner; the student knows the professional is merely mouthing words, and doesn't really feel the words s/he is saying. 

When a student doesn't feel you feel what you're saying...they feel that they have no realistic chance at success; and you actually INCREASE the chance of the student dropping. They asume&mldr; <span><a href='/topic/comment/7842/112371/201244' style='text-decoration:none;'>>>></a></span></p></div>					<!-- </p> -->
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				<a href='/pg/profile/bobmagee'>Robert Magee</a> 
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			Discussion Comment <div class='river-title'><a href='/topic/comment/7842/111871/193716' style=''>How do you feel those interested in creating a climate of student support deal with management that doesn't "get it"?</a></div>
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	<div class="river_content_display"><p>How do those interested in creating a climate of student support deal with school management that doesn't "get it"?

All too often, management in schools (I've been in proprietary education since 1983) deal with the numbers for THIS class start...and not for the long-term.

All too often they don't see that good student service is the right thing...and the effective thing...but is also good business.

Specifically, how do we introduce these ideas into becoming a real part of a company's culture?

A case in point...when I worked at Computer Learning Center, we made a point of amking clera that Student&mldr; <span><a href='/topic/comment/7842/111871/193716' style='text-decoration:none;'>>>></a></span></p></div>					<!-- </p> -->
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